The Catholic Bishop of the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee, William Wack, CSC, sat down with Mid Bay News’ Christopher Saul to discuss a letter about immigration that stirred up controversy among Catholics and non-Catholics alike in the diocese.
In his letter, he called for a more humane immigration policy, the shutting down of migrant detention centers like Alligator Alcatraz, and exhorted Catholics to focus on how they can assist the needy and unfortunate during the month of October, when Catholic leadership places special emphasis on pro-life issues.
We covered the release of the letter here.
Here’s the conversation between Bishop Wack and Mid Bay News’ Christopher Saul. We’ve made edits to the transcript to make it easier to read and for brevity. We’ve attached the full audio of the interview at the bottom of this article.
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Christopher Saul: “Bishop Bill Wack is the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee’s bishop, and he’s here with us today. You just sent out a letter to the flock here in Pensacola-Tallahassee, including all the Catholics. I think about 50,000 people here identify as Catholic, roughly. What did you say in that letter, and why did you determine that, like right now is the time to say it?”
Bishop Wack: “Yeah, this is a letter to all those who are Catholics in the diocese that is the panhandle, basically. And actually, it’s like about 75,000 or 80,000 people [who are Catholic].
In October, we focus on issues of life. And typically, that’s been, you know, our opposition to abortion, and, more positively speaking, our support of mothers and families. But also, I think we’ve been asked, well, not asked. We’re just reminded to expand that, ‘what does it mean to be pro-life?’ It means more than just being anti abortion. It means caring for the poor and those who are marginalized, for the immigrant, for those who are imprisoned unjustly, you know, things like that. So, it came up in October because of that. But it’s also timely in our country, I believe, because, you know, we’re hearing so many stories about forced deportations and those immigration centers that are opening up around the country and here in Florida. And it’s really addressed to especially to the Catholic faithful.
Christopher: I remember you talked about the tragically named alligator Alcatraz [in your letter]. Why is that a tragic name for you? And what does it say about where we are in our country?
Bishop Wack: That moniker that’s been given [Alligator Alcatraz], I think, is just not helpful. It really makes fun of the situation. I remember when it was first used, someone said, ‘you know, because if they get out of this place, well the alligators or the pythons will get them,’ it’s really not helpful. I think in this conversation, you know, and there’s, there are two more that are being proposed. One is a ‘Deportation Depot,’ I believe, in Jacksonville, and maybe ‘Panhandle Pokey’ here in our diocese. We should call them what they are – they’re detention centers. They’re holding facilities. That’s why I said tragically dubbed. I just don’t think that’s helpful. It’s to instill fear, and it’s a mockery of our judicial system.
Christopher: Have you heard from people that are undocumented migrants, that are in our churches, that are sitting next to us in the pews? What are they saying? What are they telling you about this whole situation?
Bishop Wack: I’ve heard mostly from parish leaders, that is, from our pastors, and also from those who work with folks very closely in our parishes, and I have heard some folks have talked to me or sent me letters.
The main thing that comes out is this fear that people have whether they’re documented or not, but especially those obviously, if you’re not documented, they live in fear. Numbers are way down in those coming to church as well, as you know, they tell us they don’t even want to go shopping or go out because they’re afraid that they get pulled over [and] they may get deported.
And I have heard stories of even parishioners who have been taken to that detention center in the Everglades, and they’ve shared their stories with their parishes. One staff member told me that he was just pumping gas when he was approached and asked to show ID. Well, he was born here. He’s been here. His family’s been here for many generations. And he actually said, ‘Well, why do I have to show you that?’ And he said the officer was kind of apologetic, and said, ‘I’m just doing my job. I’m sorry.’ And so he showed him this ID. And, yeah, he was born right here, or Alabama, wherever it was, but I’m just hearing things like that. The biggest thing is just fear and uncertainty that people are experiencing.
Christopher: There were plenty of people that [sic] supported what you said, but there are also plenty of people that [sic] felt like this wasn’t the place of a church to talk about this, to talk about immigration or any sort of policy, really. What do you want people to know about what the church is supposed to be doing, and what do you want them to know about the Church’s position on immigration?
Bishop Wack: I like that people have been commenting mostly positive, but some negative and some very, very negative [responses]. I think that’s good. We need to have this conversation. That’s what I was hoping for. For this. I’m hoping that we can talk about this as Christians, for those of us who are in the church, you know, and not just as politicians, as someone who lines up on one side or the other. But let’s look at this through the lens of the gospel, lens of Christianity. And that’s really how we ought to look at everything. We had this phrase, ‘What Would Jesus Do?’ That was very popular for a while, but really, that kind of gets to the heart of it. ‘What Would Jesus Do? Who would Jesus deport?’ I think what I want people to know about the Catholic position is this: that our dignity comes not from anything we have done, or something that someone has granted to us. Our dignity is inherent. It comes from just being a child of God, being born in the image and likeness of God. I understand, of course, we need laws to regulate our lives. Here, the government has the authority to regulate the border, and we hope they do and secure the border. But also, how do we treat one another who are here in our community right now? How can we be Christ to them?
Christopher: Like you said a little bit earlier, this is celebrate life month for Catholics around the country, and since the Supreme Court ruling that basically devolved that decision for whether or not to allow abortions in a state to the States. It seems like there’s been a big shift in terms of, like policy focus for the Catholic Church, away maybe from abortion to other things like immigration, like education, things like those that are all kind of the whole life ethic. Is that something you’ve seen, or is that just something that I’m perceiving?
Bishop Wack: No, I think you’re right. I think that’s it with the overturning of Roe versus Wade. The focus is also on supporting families, especially locally at the state level, or even local level, because it’s not a national issue anymore.
I think then we also, we’ve been doing this before, even before that decision was handed down, we’ve been focusing on an expanded understanding of what it means to be pro-life.
But especially now, I think it makes sense to say. ‘Great. So we have this overturning of Roe versus Wade. Now what?’ Where can we really focus our attention, nationally and as a church?
Christopher: As the Bishop of Pensacola-Tallahassee, you have the state capitol there, so you do everything from the red mass to celebrate the opening of the legislature, but you also, I would imagine, are able to see the governor and the state senators, the Senate President, if you could talk to them about the situation right now, what would you want to say to them directly?
Bishop Wack: We like to look at the various policies that we’re interested in – obviously, more than just interested in – that really affect us as Catholic Christians. And some of [the politicians policy positions] we’re in alignment with, and we thank the governor for and the others for their positions – and what did their good work on things that they have done.
They know it’s coming. We always challenge them as well on some things, like capital punishment or issues affecting our environment, things like that.
And usually, it’s a good exchange because they know it’s coming. They know that we agree on some things and we don’t [agree on other things].I guess I would just want to keep doing that.
Christopher: What happens next? You’ve written this letter. We’ve heard responses from Catholics, non Catholics, people who agree, don’t agree. What is the next thing that should happen, either from your office or from the diocese, or just from Catholics in general?
Bishop Wack: I think we just keep following up on it. It’s engaging a lot of people to have conversations with us. Some are kind of one-sided, when they send a very angry letter. But if [the angry letters] have an address, I try to write them back, engage them and talk to them, because I think we need to have this conversation. We’re so used to kind of almost shouting at each other, you know, and canceling people if we disagree with them. But, let’s talk about it. ‘What is the way to go forward?’ Do people believe it’s somehow [OK] to round up millions and millions of people and deport them? I don’t know. Do people think that’s what it is? Some people say, ‘Oh, so you think [America can] just open the borders and let everyone come in?’ I am not saying that at all, but what do we do with the situation we find ourselves in now? I think what we continue to do, is have that conversation, you know? And just engage people about that, because I don’t have the answers, and I don’t even propose all the answers in the letter, if you read that. I’m just really raising the question, saying, ‘can we look at this in another way?’ ‘Are we as Catholics really being pro-life if we just round everyone up and send them away?’
Christopher: What are the keys, through a Catholic lens, that the immigration system in America needs in order to improve or get better?
Bishop Wack: I think obviously the fact that we’re all created in the image and likeness of God, and all are created equally. That’s huge. Also, we believe that there is a right to migrate, especially if there is a reason for leaving —[such as being] unable to find security, food, or the means to survive in one’s place of birth.
One has a right to migrate; now they have to respect the laws of the countries to where they are migrating, I get that. But nonetheless, that’s something you know is key to us. It’s also, I think, really important that we know that we are, as Christians, a pilgrim people. This is not our true home. We’re on our way to to our true home in heaven. And God reminds us through Moses in Exodus, he said, ‘Do not oppress the resident alien in your land. For you yourselves were once aliens residing in Egypt.‘ It’s not just us versus them, but we’re all kind of in this together. That’s important for people to know.
Pro Communi Bono
St. Francis De Sales, Ora Pro Nobis!
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